As announced on Friday, today I begin a blog-alogue with Meredith Gould. The first question I posed her was: Why do you choose to stay in the Catholic church when it appears to be in crisis? As someone who joined the Church as an adult, I was especially interested in what she had to say. The original plan was for me to answer Meredith’s initial question today over at her blog, but when she sent me this I wanted to reply immediately. You can read my response on Meredith’s blog.
Paul,
For the past decade especially, our church has strained my credulity and broken my heart on a regular basis. I glean some comfort in knowing that I’m neither unique nor alone in this regard. Fortunately, I’m blessed to know Roman Catholics of deep faith who are calling for this century’s version of aggiornamento.
I happen to think this is a great and important time to be Catholic. Really. No joke. How often do we get to be right smack in the middle of an opportunity for radical Christ-based, Holy Spirit-generated change – and know it? The challenge is, of course, believing that such change is possible, that we can indeed “all be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye.” I actively, consciously choose to walk by faith and not by fright.
As a sociologist, I tend to view each crisis du jour within a larger framework. From this perspective, I’m able to see the Roman church as a man-made social institution rotting under layers of historical grime; one that seems stuck in its self-perpetuating narrative. This sociological perspective also allows me to realize that change is not only possible, it’s inevitable. Thanks be to God – and I mean that quite literally.
Yes, I sometimes find myself praying, “Dear God, in your infinite mercy, please grant that I may be kicked out so I don’t have to leave.” During Advent, I even hinted around that excommunication might be a nice Christmas gift. (Everyone thought I was kidding.) Still, I choose to stay. Why?
I choose to stay because “the heavenly call of God in Christ Jesus” is indeed the goal toward which I’m called to press on. I know the institutional church is simply an artifact that needs excavation and transformation. I choose to stay because I know God is bigger and the Holy Spirit more powerful than anything humans might muck up. I choose to be a participant observer. I choose to stay because having been raised Jewish, I know things could always be worse. Indeed, they already have been.
Meredith
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I loved what I read on Meredith’s blog from you Fr. Paul and now I come here to find this from Meredith.
The idea of a blog-alogue is brilliant. You both leave me with much to ponder and pray with.
This exercise is very literally re-membering the Body of Christ. Thank you both.
I very much like what you wrote, Meredith, and I identify with much of what you are saying.
As a Feminist Catholic (an oxymoron for many), I have been ‘defecting in place’ for so long that I feel a bit startled to see suddenly so many people dealing with feelings similar to mine but for different reasons.
For years, as someone who is gay-friendly, in favor of women deacons, who wishes that divorced and remarried folks would not be automatically excommunicated from the Eucharist, etc etc etc, my heart has been torn and broken repeatedly by the edicts coming out of the Vatican.
I am therefore somewhat amused to see the Vatican suddenly put on the hot seat and experiencing some of what it has dealt for decades now.
I think of Bishop O’Malley of Boston, however, and I feel hope.
I cried when Cardinal Ratzinger was elected Pope. But, who knows, maybe the aggiornamiento so many of us are longing for, will come through him.
I’m not Catholic but find my heart breaking for the faithful who manage to keep the church together ~ serving those in need, reaching out to those that are frail, broken, lost. Doing what Christ did during His short time on earth. I loved what Fr. Paul said – “I find myself going back to Jesus Christ.” Well, amen to that.
Honestly there are so many churches struggling with social issues ~ women preaching, women not preaching, do we follow the Word, do we preach nothing but love? What about sin? All human institutional issues that are turning people off and they’re literally walking with their feet ~ out of church ~ some for good. Again, my heart breaks.
So now what? Meredith AND Fr. Paul said “I find myself going back to Jesus Christ.” I’m sitting at my table this morning with tears in my eyes. I’ve struggled with the “humanness” of the church for years now. I am one who left the church to re-think and regain my faith that had been battered and bruised in a very bad church situation. I missed the point ~ time to refocus on what’s really important ~ Jesus Christ. Let our Triune God deal with the rest. My favorite verses in the Bible come from Romans (umm, churches struggling ring a bell with anyone? The New Testament is full of Paul encouraging, chastising church leaders).
Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those that love God, to those that are called according to His purpose….who will separate us from the love of God? Neither death, nor life, no angels nor principalities, or powers, nor things present or things yet to come….will separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Amen)
I simply can’t wait to see the next blog posts. Love to you both in Christ. Who is and will always be.
I love this post and agree about choosing to be a “participant-observer” in these times.
I just left a long comment over at More Meredith Gould, but wanted to add here that the only way I can remain Catholic is by being outspoken about how things have to change. The extent and breadth of the abuse scandal makes it clear that Catholics must earnestly pray for the good of everyone in the Body of Christ, particularly the most vulnerable among us, and vow to speak up for those that have had no voice.
I have been writing comments on People For Others for some time now without disclosing that I have joined the Episcopal Church. In fact, in three days I will be received as a priest of the Episcopal Church, functioning within the limits of my illness. I resonate with Claire’s comments. Even when I was a Jesuit priest I had heartaching difficulties dealing with Catholics who came to see me over women’s ordination, artificial contraception, divorce and remarriage, homosexuality, and obligatory clerical celibacy. These influenced the choice I have made to join the Episcopal Church.
However, I would like to respond to a comment Paul made on Meredith’s blog, when he referred to the Episcopal church as cleaner and tidier. As I have come to know more long time Episcopalians, their recounting of past events involving some priests and bishops make me uncertain that we can claim to be cleaner and tidier. Those who choose to remain Catholics, in my mind you are my brothers and sisters in Jesus.
What my heart most aches for is that we followers of Jesus can find a way to join our messes together, and united together spread God’s amazing love to our world.
Why do you choose to stay in the Catholic church when it appears to be in crisis?
By the grace of God,
For the glory of God.
Bless the Good News, God saves.
I think an important element here is integrity. We need to be true to what we profess and hold dear to. This means, in particular, that if we find that after much prayer, utter submission to Christ’s will, self-surrender, study, and tears, we cannot in conscience profess the Catholic faith — and that means what she presently and will forever teach on women’s ordination, contraception, human sexuality, and so forth — we need to be people of integrity and leave the church, or at least withdraw from the sacraments. If you believe what Episcopalians believe, become an Episcopalian like Eric. If you want to be a Catholic, believe all what Catholicism believes, and ask for the grace to embrace it instead of holding it at arm’s length like a stinky diaper. Do not conform the Church to your own image, but conform yourself to the image of the Church. It’s more freeing than you think.
The Church is the Bride of Jesus Christ and we are the Church, no matter what denomination we may happen to identify with. We know that Jesus has defeated sin and death, once and for all. It is because of this that Satan has infilltrated the Church. He is very good at deception and lies and doing whatever he can to drive us apart and divide us. This has been happening since the begining of the Church. Jesus knows our human frailty and how easy it is to stray from him through other influences. Jesus had spoken of what we are going through in Luke 12:49-53, when he tells us he has come to set the earth on fire. Because of our human nature, the Church, as an institution, will not be perfect with we as its members. The important thing to remember is that Jesus is our head and that we are required to pick up our cross and follow him. In spite of all the scandals and crisis, we need to unite our crosses to that of Jesus and he will bear our burdens. Yes it is very unfortunate what has and is happening in the Church, but we must also pray for those that are commiting the injustices that many are suffering from, so that by the Grace of God, they may repent of their wrongdoing. As for the rules and regulations that the Church puts forth, I think that we need to look at the life Jesus lived and the examples he has given us to realize that some of these rules and regulations are to try and preserve our life in Christ Jesus so that we will not be separated from Jesus on the Final Day. What comes to mind is from Matthew 25:31-46. I know myself, a few of the victims and also the ones who had hurt them. Some of these were very close to me. I also know, that in the Spirit of the Lord, that we must pray for all of them, for it is only by the Grace of God that we find healing through all of this.
Thank you both so much for your thoughtful, heartful words. The blogalogue is a great idea. I tried to leave a comment at Meredith’s blogsite, too, but encountered some mysterious glitch. Just wanted to say thank you!
Thanks, all, for your thoughtful and thought-provoking comments both here and over at my blog in response to Paul’s commentary. The fun continues tomorrow!
I recently wrote this to a Catholic group who is trying to change some basic tenets of the the Catholic Church, e.g. they want single or married men or women to be able to become priests.
“I have often been confused about groups who want changes such as those your organization is striving for. Not that I want people to leave the Catholic Church, but your tenets are so far removed from that of the Church that I wonder why you do not just let the Church be what it is and start your own church with a different name.”
I have yet to receive a reply.
I want to ask Eric E. and Kathleen if I understand their ecclesiastical theology correctly. The Catholic Church is what is, has always been so, and will always be so. And it is the Pope who determines what it has been, what it is, etc. It is the eternal will of God that the Pope is the authocratic leader of the Catholic Church. If you do not like what he rules, leave.
When I was studying for my Jesuit ordination I wrote a paper, well-received by my professor, on the papacy of St. Gregory the Great. He was much more collegial in dealing with bishops and very diplomatic in dealing with Patriarchs. I admit that this was 1500 years ago, but clearly his behavior would not have been acceptable to Pope John Paul or Pope Benedict.
When did the question of who is qualified for ministry become one of the “basic tenets of the Catholic Church”?
I don’t hear any discussion of this question in the Nicene Creed.
“I choose to stay because I know God is bigger and the Holy Spirit more powerful than anything humans might muck up. ”
And if you’ve been putting coins in the collection plate the odds are that your church used your coins to deny my partner and I the right to marry (all the while also using your coins to pay for their bishops’ decisions to tolerate pedophilia for the good of the universal church fundamentally disordered irony here). So while I’ll respect your freedom of conscience, I’ll also follow you’re money. BS talks, and money walks. You donate, you cooperate with evil.
Sorry to be the skunk at the picnic of self-congratulation (darling, you’re so brave to stay and support an institution whose practices you despise! No!, you’re the one’s whose so admirable with her Easter donations), but, I hope you and your ilk rot in your Catholic hell – but I hope by then the rest of us will find out a way to make sure only you and your ilk suffer from the hell your Church wrecks on the lives the rest of us have to live on a daily basis.
Would this be a good time to suggest everyone buy a copy of my book, Why Is There a Menorah on the Altar? Jewish Roots of Christian Worship or would that come under the heading of disgustingly shameless self-promotion? I would (and do) argue that learning more about 1st century Judaism could be helpful in understanding how Church practice, dogma, and doctrine has emerged within the context of history — from the get-go…like before “Christians” were invented.
Susan is correct–the question of who can be a priest is not one of the “basic tenets of the Church”. This is the kind of scare talk conservatives always use. Before Vatican II it would have been considered a basic tenet that the Mass had to be in Latin, and that anyone who wasn’t Catholic was condemned. The Church has in the past not opposed slavery, and supported the divine right of kings. The fact of the matter is that Church teaching on many subjects has changed over time. What remains as the core of Church teaching has to do with the Trinity (what 90% of the words in the creed are about) and the sacraments, and sacramental life of the church. The Church needs to change it’s teaching on who can be a priest (and many other things) that would reform and revitalize the Church. I totally reject the “believe absolutely in all dogma or leave” argument.
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